i grew up in a family of posh. this was a good thing and a bad thing - If i drew a picture, it had more chance of being exhibited. On the other hand, if the viewer realised just how posh I was, they would likely have a lower opinion of what they were looking at . I learned some harsh, humiliating lessons when I was younger, and now I deflect any talk a my background. People love to see the artist emerge from humble beginnnings. I want to ask the contributors to this article - which would you appreciate more, a drawing of a flower by a bosnian refugee, or the exact same drawing by Prince Harry? when you all went to art school, what do you think the inevitably posh panel of selectors saw in you? Probably a trophy for their college. A bit of the credibility they thought they required in order to be justified as artists. posh is enforced mediocrity. If I want to be recognised as an artist, I can't be seen to be posh.

henry saintjohn smyth, bath, these sceptered isles

Why are we always complaining?
Art has been and will continue to be made with or without Arts College, Council, Class, Culture or Cash. To make is not dependant on an official tick along side a series of cognitive desisions but also a personal desire. Just because art outside of the big C's is not recognised does not remove it's pottential for IMPACT.

If we as a society continue to value art within an economic frame work and argue ONLY for more 'diverse bums on seats' we will never truly appreciate anything beyond this paradigm and will never truly understand the human capacity to imagin and create.
Perhaps young people should be encouraged more to see there community (being working, middle or upper class) as relevant and ripe for creative inspiration and production.
Give them the confidence to know that they do not need an officially recognised 'gold star' for their work to be important to the development of personal and human endeavour and therfore worth their investment.

Theresa Caruana, Nottingham,

I believe Grayson Perry has raised some very interesting issues herre which Art Colleges alone cannot solve. The best Higher Education Institutions are already working closely with both primary and secondary schools and FE Colleges offering routeways in to the Arts and clear and realistic careers guidance. Lifelong learning networks of this sort are key. In addition once students make it to HE then Universities need to get much better at keeping them there and recognising that the students ARE the customer and a level of service appropriate to their very different needs is needed. I speak as an ex academic and a 50 year young white middle class female art student who is barely surviving at an insititution where the care for PT students is woeful - Libraries closed at weekends, little on line learning support, no studio space. The reality is that many underrepresentd groups will study in a PT mode - even on FT courses and HEI's need to respond. Creative Arts can be an economic force .

Polly Thornton, Ashford, Kent

Dear Grayson Perry, thanks to your valuable insights I have now realised that my life has sunk to a whole new relm of insignificance. I am white, female and middle class (none of which I can do anything about), a 'stay at home' mother (an unpaid, invisible and thankless job) and an artist. It now seems that my presence all the way through the art education system ( the experience that I value most) has done nothing but create a pleasant perfume filled ghetto and for that I appologise. I realise now that I should bow to your far superior masculine, working class values that are obviously the most valuable assets needed to make good art.
I appologise again (as only a white middle class English woman can) for polluting the art world with my presence.

Zoe , London, England

All the discussion so far mentions the more famous Art Schools and colleges. I am a BA Fine Art student at London Metropolitan (The Sir John Cass Department of Art, Media and Design). It's better known for its Jewellery, Silversmithing , Furniture and Musical Instrument-making courses BUT I can assure you the Fine Art students are from all sorts of backgrounds - all classes, nationalities, ethnic groups, languages and ages. They and the teaching staff are passionately committed to their BA work. Colleges like this may lack the "glamour factor", but they offer a real chance to people who are not from traditionally well-educated backgrounds.
Maybe we will see the hot talent coming from this kind of art school in the future! The students work and live in East London in the middle of the most raw, energetic and iconoclastic artistic activity in the world; some of them are helping to generate that activity.
Visit the Graduate Show, and see what's happening outside the posh places!

Stephanie Herbert, London, London

I too see where Grayson is coming from. Attending an Art College which hailed a fellow Turner Prize winner, to Art School where I grew in creativity and character, to teaching on BTEC and Foundation Degree course at the college I was taught. Working in a multicultural and prodominately working class college which may no longer have the facilities to give students the same opportunities as I. Government cuts in funding to art courses (they don't help economic growth) sadly mean we can no longer offer these to such students unless they can afford to pay the fees. Tell me, how on earth are young working class students today meant to study art at university if the opportunities are rapidly dwindling.

'It is hoping that formalising routes for students to enter BA courses with vocational qualifications such as BTECs and National Diplomas rather than the traditional, more academic path will go some way to remedying this class imbalance'

I wish Grayson, I wish.....

Pearl, North, Lancs

It seems the times comment section is also a white missle class ghetto.

beth, paisley,

I have seen the problem Grayson Perry describes from two angles. I attended the Royal College of Art from 1988-90. When I arrived lots of students were doing good impressions of 'cockney geezers', then come the holidays were off to villas in Italy for the summer, while I enjoyed a summer working in Sainsburys. When we graduated many students managed to afford studios before they'd earned any money.

As a lecturer at F.E. college, I saw talented working class students (and often also from ethnic minorities), opt for their nearest college, rather than the best for their subject, so they could stay at home to save their parents money. This has only got worse in recent years.

I grew up on a council estate in Kirkcaldy , and went to the same school as Gordon Brown. I went to Edinburgh College of Art, then the RCA, despite my parents disdain for the arts.
If Gordon Brown reinstated the grant he would give some meaning to the 'diversity' they like to pay lip service to.

Linda Hughes, London,

I attended Camberwell from 1998-2001 (part of the University of the Arts). It was the first year of fees and it was quite apparent to me that the years above me were far more diverse, the years who got a grant and a free education. I should mention I am white and middle class . Camberwell was quite an experience. Its a shame all the mature students have also been priced out of the BA market, they were so essential to the peer learning element. Of course I blame the government for this mess. Be that as it may I think the Institutions have been very slow at turning the Arty-ness into profitability. Now when you go to Art College you have to be able to come out with a skill you can cash in on, even if its to self fund your real great works. Similarly if Art Institutions are going to take students seriously as customers they also have to start sorting out grants, bursarys and funding for those who can't afford to be there.

chris, Oxford, UK

I studied at Art college and could count on one hand those individuals at the college who were from working class backgrounds including myself. I think any of them would be able to relate to "imposter syndrome" and even after being the only student in my department to graduate with a 1st I still felt as though it was a sort of cosolation, as the tutors knew that people like me didn't make it in the art world.
I feel that Art Schools let down the working class students who do make it through even now because no indication is ever given of what it takes to establish an art career. Those students that I studied with who have gone on to establish careers were all from privileged backgrounds. I think as well that the middle classes are more likely to have a sense of entitlement that those from poorer backgrounds lack which undermines any ambition they do have.
This is a question that has to be taken seriously by the art world it doesn't want to stagnate.

Kate, Scotland,

I hope this reflects on my chances at the right time. A born and bred Lancashire boy wanting to be up there in London. A good article non the less, something I’ll take into consideration when preparing for interview. It is interesting that people down here have a lack in confidence in proving themselves to what they may see as a higher class of culture, it does indeed stop potential students from chasing the courses they want. Perhaps these upcoming initiatives can do something to conquer this perhaps.

Tobias Rose, Preston, England

Coming from a working class background I completely agree with Grayson Perry's article. Fine Art departments in general, I think, tend to privilege a certain middle class background and, indeed attitude to art. I recently applied for a PhD at one of the more established and prestigious London art schools (which I won't name). Before the interview I ran my research past the department several times who were thoroughly encouraging and advised on several revisions. When it came to the crunch they turned me down. Largely, I think because the interdisciplinary nature of my research (I had requested another supervisor in social sciences department) put them off. I got the impression that this and my rather eclectic academic background (I've never been in a fine art department, I did a combined honours BA at a poor ranking institution and my MA in Sociology department) did not fit in with their specific way of seeing art and art production.

Ted Moullette, London,

What a wonderful facility with the written word! More from Grayson Perry, please.

Pat O'Donnell, Ascot,

What's that comment about You've Been Framed apart for some blatant advertising? It's hardly a new show, and neither is your idea about the clips being set up: you'd be better off saying "I like watching this programme I found at 10pm called 'The News.' It's most informative about current affairs in the world."

The bit about art schools is spot on though: the interview preparation for schools is nowhere near equal enough

Ben, France,

Dear Grayson
You and your readers may be aware that Dartington College of Arts is under threat of closure/ relocation.

DCA has for many years produced many types of different artist ,away from the stagnent eduacational conveyer belt system, of some of the more well know art, theatre and music schools. Many of these talented artists have succeeded, despite lacking traditional academic qualifications or not being fresh out of A-levels when they start, enabling Dartington to keep its balance.
Anyhow, interesting article as always.


For more information:
http://www.savedartingtoncollege.org

Paul Dowdney, London, England

I sued to work in higher education and I would have to agree that the art college I worked for ran courses which were almost the equivalenty of a Swiss finishing school. A endless stream of studenst who were virtually identical and had no intention of using their degree afterwards. He institutions cannot afford to have any failures and so I feel they choose a ceratin kin dof student and anyone who might be 'challenging' isn't going to cut it. We also have a background of culture being elitist and a Government that thinks that, for the vast majority, culture should consist of gambling, drinking and sport - a schizophrenic attitude that means a lot of teenagers feel that culture is closed door. I was lucky as I coudl see a way out through education but I'm not sure I could do it today. We survive today of a diet of blandess and conformity with no one daring to step out of line.

cat, London, UK