Just before Christmas, I got an e-mail from Rob Brydon: “Hi, I got your
address from [a mutual friend], and I hope you don’t mind me contacting you
direct.” He went on to ask if I’d appear in a television programme he was
making about being Welsh, in which Max Boyce (if you don’t know, he’s a
Welsh cross between Jasper Carrott and Eddie Waring) quoted something I’d
said about the Welsh “in their glove-shaped valleys full of depression”. It
would only take an hour. “Yours in yuletide hope. Merry Christmas. PS sent
from my iPhone that’s why it’s a little abrupt.”
There were three things that immediately struck me about that. First, the
freemasonry of celebrity: if a funny plumber or an accountant who did
impressions had asked for my address, they probably wouldn’t have got it,
but being on the telly means you can go anywhere, you’re assumed to be
benign and trustworthy – an odd assumption, really. Then there was the
glove-shaped valley. I don’t remember writing that – but, in a week, I won’t
remember writing this. And there was the PS. It wasn’t really an apology, it
was more a slyly Pooterish boast: I’ve got an iPhone, didn’t even have to
wait till Christmas. Very Welsh that. I wondered what the Welsh for “iPhone”
was... “yPhone”, possibly. He sent me another e-mail about contracts that
had the same iPhone apology on it; plainly, it’s a round-robin,
indiscriminate boast. It’s no accident that we talk about keeping up with
the Joneses, and not the Smiths or McDonalds. And I still haven’t been paid.
And then a fourth thing crept up on me. I would probably do this programme and
break my rule of never being a sound-bite wonk on soft docs, because Brydon
is the nicest small Welsh person I’ve ever met. In 15 years of being a
critic, I’ve had serious death threats only twice: once from Albania and
once from Wales. The Albanians just said they’d kill my whole family, rape
my sisters, cut off my head with a rusty bread knife and piss down the hole
in my neck. The Welsh promised all that and then went on to send me dozens
of used tampons, turds, bullets, garden furniture, replacement windows,
ornamental thimbles, wheelchairs, offers from lonely dogging enthusiasts,
complaints to the Commission for Racial Equality and the Press Complaints
Commission. And finally, a Welsh MP marched into a police station and
demanded a plod be dispatched to arrest me for principality treason. He’s
still out there somewhere, with a warrant chipped into a standing stone, or
possibly two standing stones, one in English, one in Welsh.
The Welsh bruise easier than ripe peaches; they have insult detectors more
sensitive than a bat in a thunderstorm. They can take offence at silence,
and nothing in the world has skin as gossamer-fine as a Welshman with a
grievance. Except for Brydon: he has skin like Cherie Blair’s buttocks.
Would you like some toast with your scrambled egg and bacon, I ask chummily,
as we meet for breakfast at the Wolseley. “No, no, thanks, I can’t have
yeast.” You’re allergic to yeast? “Yes, yeast, it gets to my skin and,
well...” What, you blow up like a crumpet?
“You were very good in the film, very good: my wife saw it and she said you
were very professional.” Thank you, but actually, I look like some sort of
smug, gay, patronising English git. “No, I wouldn’t say that,” he offers
uncertainly, as if to imply he’d leave out the “some sort of”. And there’s
Max Boyce going on about the glove-shaped valley, saying it’s deathless
prose. It’s embarrassing: I don’t remember writing it. In fact, I’ve only
ever written two articles about Wales – one was about Wales and the other
about the reaction of the Welsh to the first article about Wales, and that
was 14 years ago, and you’re still asking me onto the TV to explain it.
Brydon is unusual for a Welshman and a comedian. He is genuinely funny in
private. He’s also modest, self-deprecating, keen to offer no offence, to
see the best in life; he’s polite and interested, kind, and a touchingly
sentimental family man. Nobody has ever had a bad word to say about him,
which, in the entertainment industry, is beyond a miracle. Whenever I’ve met
him, he has always been charming and sweet-natured, despite my reviews.
Altogether, he’s an interviewer’s worst nightmare. As we talked, I saw this
page stretching ahead of me like a featureless desert smelling faintly of
leeks.
So, Rob Brydon, how did you start? Where did it all begin and why? What made
you want to be a comedian? “Welsh drama school – I never wanted to do
anything else.” Really? I’ve never met a kid who says: “I want to grow up to
be a comedian.” They all want to be film or pop stars or Big Brother
presenters. But whoever says: “I really want to be Ben Elton”? Anyway, he
applied to Central and Rada – English drama schools – but they turned him
down. What was your audition piece? “It was from The Homecoming, Pinter –
actually, there’s a story about that. I was in the Ivy once with my wife and
Melvyn...” I’m sorry, hold up. Bragg, Melvyn Bragg? “Yes, my wife made
programmes for The South Bank Show, so we were in the Ivy with Melvyn – oh,
and look over there, Harold Pinter and Anto-nia Fraser. Melvyn goes over,
and we sort of tag along, and Pinter says, ‘What a coincidence, we were just
talking about the nature of laughter in the theatre,’ and so I say, well,
it’s your fault I didn’t get into Rada: if you’d written a couple more jokes
in The Homecoming, they’d have had me. Then there’s this silence, and I
think, God, I’ve done something terrible. And then Pinter laughs, a great
big laugh.” That must have been one of those famous Pinter pauses, then?
“Yes, I suppose that’s what it was. You don’t often get one of them.”
One of the very best things about Brydon is his timing. It’s not the boom-boom
drumbeat of a thuddingly delivered punch line, more the Fred and Ginger
syncopation of immaculately paced sentences, and that may have something to
do with being Welsh. The language may be drivel, but the silence between
words is golden.
Marion & Geoff, Brydon’s most famous creation, is one of the most
memorably searing series I’ve ever seen on television, often lumped together
with other shows such as The Office as the comedy of embarrassment. It was
far, far more than that. It used a fixed shot of a cab driver who talks
directly into the lens about his wife and family. While we understand that
he’s being cuckolded, and everything he loves is being stripped away, he
relentlessly continues to see the best in every demeaning situation. Later,
after the divorce, he goes on hopefully about his absent children, the
little smashers. His desperate optimism and groundless good humour make for
true heroic pathos, an emotion that’s almost impossible to conjure on
television, where almost all humour and drama are coated with irony or
sentimentality. It was at times as painful to watch as any documentary.
I mention a particular scene. “I remember doing that,” he says. “I was trying
to get something from Death of a Salesman. You know, that last scene where
he’s wishing the best for Biff and Happy, and it’s not going to happen.
Death of a Salesman is important to me: it’s been very influential.” Really,
first Melvyn Bragg, now Willy Loman. We walk out into St James’s Park to
have our photographs taken in a field of daffodils. Brydon’s in a brown suit
– that’s brave; there aren’t many men who can carry off a brown suit. “Oh,
don’t start. It’s the bag I don’t like. I don’t want to be photographed with
this bag, I wish I hadn’t brought it.” What’s the matter with it? “Look, it
says ‘Prada’. I don’t get things from Prada. It was a gift from David
Walliams.” Willy Loman, Melvyn Bragg and hand-bags from David
Walliams. Curiouser and curiouser. How screamingly unfunny was Little
Britain? “You can’t ask me that,” he squeals, as if I’d just inquired
whether he was circumcised. “They’re my friends.” You can still have an
opinion. “No, no, no, no.”
Okay, let’s talk about the Welsh programme. Why did you do it? “It was to see
what I felt about being Welsh and the stereotypes we all have about the
Welsh, about us being miserable and touchy.” And two-faced, I add helpfully.
“There are people who’ve said that, yes.” In the film, he goes back to
rediscover his Welshness by doing stand-up. He starts off in a comedy club
in Cardiff (an oxymoron). You died on stage in that first gig. “Well, yes,
but no, not really. We just edited it to look like that, because that gives
the film some drama, a point.” So you edited out the laughs? “Yes, most of
them.” It wasn’t because you died on your arse with crappy Taff jokes? “No,
no, ha, ha, ha.” And the last one, where you changed all the material to
being a Cymru sycophant and they’re all laughing fit to pass their kidneys,
that really was like that, then? “Oh, yes, that was great.” You didn’t edit
it to look funnier? “No, of course not.” He makes a face that looks
remarkably like Stan Laurel. If you’ve ever wondered what Laurel and Hardy
were doing in bed together, it might well have been Rob Brydon.
But why did you bother getting in touch with your inner Welshman? You live in
England, you work in England, you eat English, you wear trousers with a zip,
your mates aren’t all miserabilist, recreational shepherds: why not ignore
it and enjoy being a Welshman in remission? In the programme, Brydon grows
to love his Welshness: the accent gets thicker, the sharp observations
softer and more flattering. He even comes around to the absurd language. How
do you think that Welsh performance would play in the rest of the country –
in, say, Glasgow? “Well, it might do okay.” No, it wouldn’t. It’s like those
ridiculous road signs. Welsh is the only language you learn to be able to
talk to fewer people. There isn’t a single human being you can talk to in
Welsh you couldn’t have spoken to before in English. You can say just the
same things, but it’s uglier, clumsier, with fewer words. If you’re going to
arm-wrestle between English and Welsh, there is no contest: my dictionary
buries yours.
“I just found that the stereotypes aren’t true. We’re not sad, stupid,
whingeing gits at all.” But isn’t the defining characteristic of Welshness a
hatred of the English? They really do hate and blame the English, and when
you do Englishmen in your act, it’s always the same cartoonish, clichéd,
upper-class twit. Don’t you think the racism goes the other way? Brydon is
very good at voices. “Yes, you’re right, I do have a go at the English, but
I make fun of the Welsh as well. I do that bit: when an Englishman says
‘Hello’, he says ‘Hello’; when a Welshman says ‘Hello’, he goes [Pinter
pause] ‘Alright then’.” It gets a big laugh in Llareggub, but you’ve really
got to catch it live.
We walk down to Buckingham Palace, where they are changing the guard. How do
you feel about the Prince of Wales – I mean, getting fobbed off with
second best? “He’s not second best, he’s the top prince.” But he’s not
monarch, is he? She’s English and Scots; doesn’t even have a cottage in
Wales. You’ve just got number two. What do you think of him? “Nice man, very
nice man, decent. I don’t know him personally, of course, but I think he’s a
decent, caring, nice bloke.” Do you like being famous? “Well, my sort of
fame is quiet. People are just nice to me generally. I don’t get bothered
much.” Do you like being liked? “Oh, yes.”
And as if on cue, a family bustle up and ask for an autograph. They are Welsh,
and the daughter has brought her book with her, just in case, the streets of
London being paved with celebrity. I take photographs of the happy little
group, then we progress down Piccadilly and stop in at Hatchards. Do you
have a Welsh section? I ask. “There is History upstairs, Travel on your
left.” History has seven books. That’s a bit pathetic –
you’ve got less history than Belgium. “You see, that’s what’s wrong: nobody
writes about Wales.” Well, not in English.
The Travel section is no better: there were more guidebooks to the Channel
Islands than to Wales; the principality just noses ahead of Northern
Ireland. I buy a book called I Never Knew That About Wales, which includes
things like: “The churchyard in the little village of Aberarth is the proud
possessor of the ashes of SirGeraint Evans”, and, “Haverfordwest means ford
of heifer with west tacked on to distinguish it from Hereford in England”.
“Would you like me to sign it for you?” asks Brydon shyly. Thank you.
“By the way, the glove-shaped valley – it’s Auden.” Auden? “Yes.”
Not me? “Well, it was Auden’s first.” He smiles, a Laurel smile of Welsh
sweetness and innocence. Bragg, Loman, Walliams, Auden: who’d have thought
it?
Rob Brydon’s Identity Crisis is on BBC4 on Friday
if it wasn't for wales then england would be speaking french or german now. swansea copperworks plated ships hulls to make them go faster in the water when fighting the french. merthyr ironworks produced cannonballs to shoot at the french. coal from the valleys fuelled the steam ships of the british naval fleet. llandarcy oil refinery near neath provided fuel for allied ships against the germans. swansea queens dock is the biggest industrial dock in britain and housed the oil tankers to keep the allied fuel supplies going in the second world war. lets not forget welsh reservoirs supply water to english cities like birmingham and liverpool. welsh steel works like port talbot supplied the steel to rebuild britain after the second world war. milford haven is becoming a gas port with an liquifed natural gas LNG terminal which will supply england with a quarter of its gas supply for decades to come.
england has always needed wales and will always need wales.
ian miller, llanelli, wales
There are two things that really annoy me - the bullied "English" men who attended low public schools and feel it their right to denigrate anyone who "isn't as English" as them and the "Uncle Toms" who bow and scrape to them.
Twm, Graig, Wales
"Welsh is the only language you learn to be able to talk to fewer people."
Correct, fewer people like AA Gill.
Gavin, W Sussex,
Harry in Peking obviously gets his history from the BBC. There were no 'celts' in these islands, while the idea that we didn't fully kick out the earlier inhabitants, replacing them with Anglo-Danish people, is simply another invention of anti-English television land. Science has 'proved' nothing - except maybe that while the English tell the truth about their history all around them are lying through their teeth. Now that CAN be proved.
Edward, Lincoln, England
As a patriotic Welshman I find Adrian Gill's column extremely funny.
on occasions he winds me up but in general his one line put downs of the Welsh are hilarious (I wish I could think of similar things to say about the 'Sais'] Gill gives a masterclass in put downs and should be acknowledged for the mischievious wit that he is
Allan Gamble, Sagra, Spain
It is with great (English) pride I celebrate being on board HMS Norfolk in the late 70's when we 'accidentally' loosed off a Seaslug missile that went AWOL, part of which came down on mainland Wales. They were a bit miffed. No sense of humour the Welsh ! and me with a very Welsh name.
Keith Gethen, Brisbane, Australia
Its articles like this that makes everyone hate the english!!!
Bob Hargreaves, Sheffield,
Correct me if I am wrong but aren't you a Scotsman pretending to be English, Gill?
By the way, the last sentence of Keith Allen's autobiography is the finest and truest sentence in the entire book, if not all of literature.
Clark Gwent , Newport, Gwent
Why is it that the likes of Gill and Ann Robinson can peddle their anti-Welsh bigotry with impunity, and even reward, whilst if they did it about somebody else (EG when Kilroy Silk said EXACTLY the same thing about the Arabs that Robinson said about the Welsh) they would get fired?
Huw Puw, Fishguard, Wales
Rob Brydon - hilarious! My parents are North Walean (Welsh means "bloody foreigner" in Saxon, so it would seem any ill feeling comes from the other side of the Dyke) . I have Wales in my heart and will always say I am Welsh before British although I love Sussex where I grew up , as well as many other parts of England. Welsh is the oldest living language in Europe and is cherished by the people, as are all the wonderful things protected by "cadw" (protect). The success of Welsh schools is as a direct result of a refusal to dictated to by the government's policy in Westminster. In the meantime, English pupils are being allowed to drop learning any other languages in school and have accepted "chav" into their language. Anglo-Saxons can be wonderful people, but they have inherited aggressive characteristics. Surely the wonderful humour of the Scousers is based on whingeing? Bring on Snowdonia, Welsh lamb, adventurous rugby and Katherine Jenkins!
Gareth Evans-Jones, Cologne, Germany
I think you are correct.
I live in Wales and have done for 7 yrs, I am English. I came here with no preconceived idea about the welsh and the English with all of that antagonistic attitude...sadly I was wrong. They do not want us, they not like us.
I live in a small coastal town, where all of the high street business are run by the english. I would be hard pressed to find a welsh business in this town!
We run a global business, writing software for the cast metal industry...it is impossible to find the qulaity of skills and a workforce who actually want to work. I could go on...but I am too busy running a business and paying taxes.
B Nolan, Barmouth, Gwynedd
as an english person living in wales (although i prefer to say i'm british...) i have no idea what you're banging on about.
i'm sorry to say that i've read this article in its entirety.
that's 10 minutes of my life i will never get back. thanks.
RJ, Cardiff, Wales
Wales in its history has been invaded by England and had its language and culture surrpresed. There has veen a long grude but is only emerging now because there is a Cultural revial in Wales. Thets remeber though about famous people Like Jeremy Clarkson and Anne Robson insult the welsh reguarly and there is no public backlash. Welsh people in my expeirence are very tolerant because they make a huge fuss about these comments if it was any other country people like Jeremy Clarkson and Anne Robson would be proscuted for Racism
stephen, london,
Hatred? It is a word we should use more carefully.
Nigel Armitstead, Yeovil, UK
50 million English, brought up on a guilt trip provided at their own expense by the anti-British Broadcasting Corporation, hate the English. Why are you concerned that a few refugees in the west, not to mention the rest of the world and it's dog, all appear to hate the English. It could be our attitude.
Terry, Radstock, England
A Scot, an Irishman, a Welshman, and AA Gill enter a railway compartment.
You can provide the rest
Stephen Pain, odense, denmark
Sorry Gill but we all know that the only thing that bruises more easily than a Welshman (or a peach) is a Scot.
No nation has larger chips on smaller shoulders.
Anyway, us angles don't mind if you prefer to pretend to be English, its amusing but understandable.
VB, London, UK
Why stop at the Welsh? What about the Scots, the Irish not to mention the French, Germans, need I go on.
Jamie , Dewsbury, West Yorkshire
As an Anglo-Welshman( a great British heritage),I have always described myself as British first and foremost.The petty, childish, sibling rivalry AA Gill seems obssessed with does him no good, and smacks of some kind of inferiority complex.Frankly ,I could not get to the end of the article.It reminded me of the playground rivalry at my prep school between those of Scots,Irish,Welsh and English descent. Personally,I have never encountered anything past mild leg pulling.After all the four sub-cultures and ,dare I say it ,ethnic descent of the four peoples are so close I doubt DNA could seperate us.We are all really Anglo-Celtic by descent.Just like those great Britons the Tudors and Stuarts. We forget that at our peril.
RG James, Braaschaat, Belgium
Yawn...
Leigh Simmonds, Cardiff,
The interesting thing about this article is that AA Gill claims to be Scottish and wrote this particular item
On being mistaken for an Englishman he stated:
"I don't like the English. One at a time, I don't mind them. I've loved some of them. It's their collective persona I can't warm to: the lumpen and louty, coarse, unsubtle, beady-eyed, beefy-bummed herd of England. The truth is—and perhaps this is a little unworthy, a bit shameful—I find England and the English embarrassing. Fundamentally toe-curlingly embarrassing. And even though I look like one, sound like one, can imitate the social/mating behaviour of one, I'm not one. I always bridle with irritation when taken for an Englishman, and fill in those disembarkation cards by pedantically writing "Scots" in the appropriate box."
-- from The Angry Island
Yet the replies to his article assume he is an arrogant English man.
I've got both English and Welsh ancestors, I'm proud of both.
Simon, Leicester, UK
Adrian A Gill,
"true heroic pathos, an emotion that’s almost impossible to conjure on television, where almost all humour and drama are coated with irony or sentimentality."
What about Kenny Everett?
Pierre Bernardi, Paris, France
God! How boring. This is like folks in the United States going on about New Hampshire. There is just no point to it.
Men O'Cardiff, Swansea, Wales
Interesting and more than merely 'thought' provoking mixture of blanket stereotypes in this article (however I'm sure this was the intention!!!) I find the attacks on Wales' linguistic diversity a little sad, as the majority of people I speak to are fascinated to discover that the UK does not merely possess a staggering array of accents, but that nestled in some corners of our isles there still remain (and are very much alive) Celtic tongues! Incidently the Welsh vocabulary can be far more descriptive and prosaic than English, and despite enormous influence from the Norman settlement and later 'English' rule, Welsh assimulated far less vocabulary from these sources than English did! If you look at the poetry of Dafydd apGwilym (who was a contemporary of Chaucer) his prose and verse is intelligible to the modern Welsh speaker! Incidently, from where does the writer think that the word 'phone' is derived in the first instance? Remember that ALL the kingdoms in the UK make Britain GREAT!
Nigel, Swansea(Abertawe), Wales(Cymru)
Crikey what a load of old tosh you all react with to a rasonably (he's written better) funny article.
I'm Welsh, lived here all my life.
Think the protection of the language is a bit silly and a huge waste of money.
Do worry that people get het up about the slightest thing, this applies to the English contributors here as well.
Such utter tosh being written.
What we really need to do is get together and give it to those independence wanting, oil rich, potificating Scots!
Neil, Cardiff,
I have recently moved from England to Wales. I wish I had done it many years ago. There is a sense of community and genuine frinedliness that I have experienced here in Wales that I never experienced in England. I experienced the same friendliness in Scotland and the Republic of Ireland.
Being an outsider, I feel I can be fairly objective in my comments.
Chantel, Wales,
Sadly, CroesyJeff, Mr Gill considers himself to be Scottish. Seeing as we beat them as well I guess we can cheer that too. Getting back to the article though, I can think of a number of other languages that you might learn just to end up speaking to fewer people e.g. Gallic, Gaelic, Breton, Cornish, Basque and Galician to name but six within easy reach of these islands.
Also it's disappointing that Hatchards don't stock many books on Wales and Welsh History. Perhaps there just isn't a great demand for them in England. However, if you are really interested in the subject you could try Foyles, Amazon or better still try any good bookshop in Wales. And a lot of them will be written in English too.
AndrewL, Epsom,
No, of course not, we have much better things to think about. How about you Gill?
David Navas, London,
I just hope they aren't reading all this in Newport!
NIX, Wirral, England
Gill has a problem regarding Wales which has nothing to do with Wales in actuality but rather with himself.Suggest he addresses it for his own well being as it verges on the unhealthy.
john lewis, ammanford, wales
Just because we beat you at Twickers......You hate losing to the Welsh. Come on the Celts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CroesyJeff, Cwmbran, UK
Welsh language has six different words for "because" as we're always explaining ourselves to other people. I am a totally miserable Welshman and I find myself agreeing with Gill in that respect. I shall spend the rest of the day peering through the drizzle at the mist clad mountains wondering what the abbreviation AA actually stands for, I'm sure I'll come up with something and I'll let you know.
GParry, Bangor, Wales
I am not sure what the Welsh is for 'needs attention like a drowning man needs oxygen' maybe you could look it up.
Fact is most Welsh peope are not in the slightest interested in what the English think of us. What makes you think your opinions are important ?
Seems to me you have enough problems of your own.
JD, Gods Own Country, Cymru am Byth
This article performs the answers to its own questions. Why do the Welsh hate the English? Due to the arrogance and callousness of an article like this, its writer may well be hated, whatever his national origin. Is it the definitive quality of Welshness to hate the English? Such a question emanates from a perspective of supreme arrogance, ignorance and vanity. Why is there a purpose to the Welsh language? It's worth noting that 'Wales' is derived from the Saxon for 'foreign', and 'Cymru' is derived from the Welsh for 'home'. It's only in the Welsh language that the Welsh are allowed to truly feel that they are at home.
Dafydd Sills-Jones, Machynlleth, Powys
Gill is correct. Having lived in Wales I found that whilst many Welsh people were warm and friendly, a political driven Welsh elite uses the Welsh language as a divisive wedge to alienate the population from the English in a kind of ethnic cleansing. This disadvantages the population by undermining the the economy. Few English companies want to set up there as their staff will face this prejudice, and they do not want their children to waste valuable education time learning a minority and insular language. It also affects health care. Two medical consultant friends said they would not take posts in Wales for this very reason. The politically-drive language issue was created to give power to a Welsh cadre unable to compete on a level playing field.
Willard Balthazar, Steep, UK
Interesting article and batch of comments that hide the fact that unity in the UK was imposed by force, largely the result of Nordic determination and Gallic talent - they were called Normans. And what can you say about the cultural level of a country whose nearest to a national costume is modelled on a jailor in one of the longest-serving political prisons in history?
The Welsh, Irish and Scots don't hate the English, they hate their arrogant assumption that their way of life is superior - a bit like the relationship between London and Washington DC, really. We do pity you the loss of the cultural heritage that you gave up in your desire to make everyone into your own image, futile though that was.
The nearest to an English cultural heritage seems to be country house murders and a desire to own a castle. Except for those that left while the going was good, of course, and succeeded in artificially raising house prices all over Europe.
KR, Stockport,
The irony is not in AA Gill's article, it is the Welsh response - peaches anybody?
Dave, Gloucester,
"Can't feed ourselves"? What a moronic thing to say! (Steve, from Barcelona) What EU country can feed itself? All countries import and export goods, goods they need and goods they have - and food is imported worldwide, into all the EU countries. And yes, we could feed ourselves and power ourselves and have plenty of water and jobs and health care and education - using our own taxes. What you seem to forget is that there are 50 odd million English and only 3 million Welsh, I think we have enough land and agriculture to feed ourselves, if we transfered our agriculture into a more diversified stock, could England? And as for EU subsidies, do you know how long it took for the English to back Wales' bid to get independent subsidies? There were no favours from them, I can assure you! And you speak as if we should be ashamed of acceping subsidies? Do you know what subsidies do? Wales as a small, unified country would be in a better position than many many other EU countries including England.
john jones, Chepstow, Monmouthshire
Without wanting to be pedantic, there are some people in the world who speak Welsh and not English. I have met quite a few of them, all of whom live in Argentina, either descended from Welsh immigrants or people with an interest in the language.
Matt, Cardiff,
Ian D, Bridgend: "The language which Mr Gill labours so hard to ridicule has an enchanting sonority and syllabic richness rarely found in other European languages and which are is perhaps rivalled only by Russian and Modern Greek."
Rarely found in European languages you say? Russian is spoken by some 150 million people the same linguistic qualities will be found in other East Slavonic languages such as Ukrainian and Belorussian (another 60 million). Similar qualities are likely to be found in the Southern and Western Slavonic languages (Bulgarian, Serbian, Croat, Polish, Czech...) so add another 70 or so million.
Some 280 million people in 11 European countries...
A Smith, Swindon, UK
It ill behoves people who live outside Cymru to pontificate on our language or our ability to feed ourselves without England's (or EU) help. Discounting the fact that we here pay British taxes too, the alleged "subsidies" we receive from England are far outweighed by our past contributions to England's wealth. We still have our coal , copper, manganese, slate, ore., gold. Then of course, there's the wind we could harness and keep for ourselves, our marine resources, our agriculture - and don't get me started on keeping our water.. Only coal and leeks?I think not.
As for so-called "illegible" road signs? They are not illegible to us.
Gill, Sarn, Cymru
To Lin, London,
I would just like to point that Scotland and Wales, which described as having an inferiority complex, are actually part of the UK. As the UK is a country made up of four other countries. So whilst you describe Scotland and Wales as having inferiority complexes, and the UK as not, you are in fact wrong. Either you are using the UK when you mean England, or you are accepting that the UK also has an inferiority complex.
Historically, I suspect you'll find Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have a resentment towards England, which is rooted in cultural, religious and political differences, as well as English imperialism. I find, living in Yorkshire, there are many stereotypes of the English that can be proven, but also imany of the Welsh in Llanelli. I'm afraid I have to be off to tend to the daffodils in my window boxes, whilst of course eating a leek, wrapped up in a red scarf! What's so wrong with having a national identity anyway?
Rebecca Williams, Sheffield,
Cymrujealousy is as unrealistic a concept as Cymruexclusion, but enough to demonstrate how the "small brother" mentality works.
Wales, being as prominent on the list of European countries as Lichtenstein, is a special case, as most other "small brother" nations, albeit partly dependent on the economy of the big brother, possess a certain amount of pride in being independent. Wales however, is wholly dependent on England's economy to the extent that it would literally die without the English or EU.
Is a country a country if it can't even feed itself? Is England and the EU saving the Welsh from the hazards of natural selection, or would they evolve to survive off coal and leeks? If England removed their funds and culture from Wales, what would remain? Illegible signposts? Leeks and coal?
Steve, Barcelona, Spain
There are two kinds of country: those with an inferiority complex (Scotland, Wales, France, Greece) and those without (UK, USA). You cannot have an inferiority complex without the existence of those who make you feel inferior. For the Welsh the culprit is and always has been the English. We the culprits generally have no idea of the level of venomous spite uttered against us by these pathological nations, nor of the amount of theraputic self-elevation they engage in on a daily basis.
Lin, London, England
The language which Mr Gill labours so hard to ridicule has an enchanting sonority and syllabic richness rarely found in other European languages and which are is perhaps rivalled only by Russian and Modern Greek. It has none of the predictable derivative uniformity of Romance languages based on Latin, particularly in its wealth of abstract nouns. One of a handful of recognised ''Languages of Scholarship'' of Renaissance Europe, Welsh has always had more than adequate vocabulary resources for the discussion of philosophy, theology and the arts and has a vast body of literature which predates that of English. The eisteddfodic tradition ensures aspirations to perfection in poetry, drama and prose at local, regional and national levels from year to year.
Interesting - that ostentatious mind-searching over the Welsh for iPhone. The French have similar concerns with the English for 'hotel', 'restaurant', 'police', 'station', 'ambulance', and, dare one say it - 'journalist'.......
Ian D, Bridgend,
I think people are generally decent wherever you go. All this talk about the Welsh hating the English and vice versa is a load of rubbish. There may be tensions over governmental issues (ie the Midlothian question with the Scots) but I never think these arguments are 'personal'. Isn't it time for us all to accept each others national traditions and identities but accept that fundamentally we have the same core values? Incidentally, isnt the glove bit from 'The Green Gautlet, from A Horseman Riding by trilogy. RF Derlderfield??
Carol, Leicester, UK
Cymric identity will be valued whilst there is a subsidised industry around it. Also remember the 25% subsidy to the economy = 1/3 increase in taxes or 1 in 4 of: jobs going, hospitals closing, roads not mended, babies not delivered, children not taught etc etc. How awful to be dependent on those you pity and despise it would seem. How awful that independence would economically hurt so much. Luckily for most we all we rub a long pretty well. Shold we put it to the in Wales and in England (personally I'd rather not)? Be careful, you might just get what you hope for.
i.e., Norwich, The ancient kingdom of East Anglia
It must be so irksome to Mr Gill that while Cymric identity is increasingly valued by those who hold it, Englishless is seen as tired, tawdry and conflicted. Now almost everybody in world can communicate in English, so linguistic uniqueness fails to define national identity in that shrunken (indeed imploded) rump of Empire. The monarchy, snobbishness and the right to die for Bush's neo-con crusades don't do the trick either. So frustrated patriots like Gill lash out at us in jealousy and rage. Thanks to the coverage given to characters like AA Gill and Anne Robinson, we're beginning to pity the English. Y Geiriadur Mawr is in the post.
Roger Thomas, Tenby, Pembrokeshire
No it isn't, the Scots can be just as racist!
Viper Asante. English person (human being), birmingham,
I think this article has been written, and will be continued to be written in varying forms, because the English are now being ignored, and they hate that, (and AA Gill strikes me as being someone who more than most hates to be ignored). The Scotts, Welsh and Irish have more than enough to do in getting on with running their own countries again to be bothered what the English think. Which bothers the English. And yes, if you English patriots must point out, 'it was the English that "gave" us our own countries back', but now, like Australia and the USA, among many many other nations, we are not actually that bitter anymore, and no we are certainly not 'grateful', but relieved. Cheers mate, you carry on being English and now we can carry on being Welsh, and proud of the nation we are at last (re)making. Oh, and sorry for ignoring you, you know how it is, being busy and all.
Cymru a.k.a Wales, Llaragrub, Cymru a.k.a Wales
I got employment as a van driver as soon as I passed my driving test. With my 21st birthday came my grandads rights to an HGV. I had been driving them reversing them around the transport yard, so it was not too difficult when I went out on the road. I tramped all over England Scotland and Wales. I found the vast majority of people in all three countries were extremely pleasant and jovial as well as helpful. I have had bed and breakfast in thousands of establishments and again most were quite acceptable. Although there was one group I would class as miserable, idle and grumpy. They were the dreaded DOCK WORKERS. They answered to no one and if you were a bit short with them they would even refuse to unload you. WELSH PEOPLE are very nice. Scottish PEOPLE are very nice and it is time we all got away from slating each othe. This country has far greater problems looming than someones inability to get along with Welsh people.
Trevor, Birmingham, England
Interesting article. Mr Gill is generally correct in his view that Welshmen 'hate' the English, but that is such a strong word, I think a better word would be 'resent'. This is mostly based on my observation of living and working in England for 15 years. I have had a lifetime of sheep jokes, why do you speak that dead language and I hate the Welsh. You might start to resent those kind of arrogant remarks. While I now live in Wales, we reciprocate by saying that the English generally are an arrogant bunch and that arrogance is deflated when we beat you at rugby. There again there is little graciousness in your defeat, again arrogance. So I can say that coming home to Wales was refreshing, people have more time and the way of life is less stressful, so I can see why the English are so self absorbed and well stressed and arrogant.
I am not offended by MR Gill, you can see by comparison he falls into that same arrogant Englishman category, when compared to the relaxed Rob Brydon.
Gareth, Pwllheli, Wales / Gwynedd
As an Englishman living in Wales since 1981 I find the Welsh friendly, charming, wellcoming and full of anti English HUMOUR. Perhaps the nation that doesnt recognise this as humour might be the thin skinned one. I doubt that I'll ever go 'home'.
e skelton, cardiff, wales
To be fair, since devolution there hasn't been much to be resentful of, both for Wales and especially Scotland.
Howard, Manchester,
gave up my half of welshness decades ago, too much complaining about nothing. You can have Wales and we'll have the VC's back from Rorkes Drift, thank you very much......didn't hear much complaining when the glory was gained in the Britsh Army did we? Close the Bridge, build the wall and give them Cardiff back...amen, or get with the program
Gareth, Munich, Germany
It's happened at last! In his latest rant against Wales, the Welsh and the language of heaven, A.A.Gill has become a parody of himself.
Gwenllian Tomos, Pwllheli, Cymru
as a demi-taff myself I am afriad I have to agree with many of the sterotypes. Certainly the hatred of the English and a tiresome pomposity about all things welsh- daffodils, close harmony singing and welsh cakes. Which by the way are yeast free and taste like fat soaked carpet remnants.
Lewis, London,
Mr Gill
May I kindly ask you to write about the subtleties and contradictions of your own Scottish/English identity? This may prove to be more enlightening than yet another public school bully rant against the Welsh.
I Jones, Newport,
Anyone else see the irony in the comment "The Welsh bruise easier than ripe peaches", while Mr Gill has dedicated a whole article trying to make our borg Welsh collective feel small and angry? If I could be bothered I'd send him a used tampon. But while he takes the time in his professional capacity to write such articles, I shall meanwhile be busy doing something more meaningful in mine.
This post aside . . .
Faithfully,
Small, angry Welshman
Simon Wilkins, Nagasaki, Japan
Interesting little article about Welshness. A A Gill can inspire national pride in a whole nation simply by writing his own mis informed opinion. A work of genius.
Paul Richards, Colwyn Bay, Wales/Cymru
i-phone in Welsh would probably be au-ffôn, if we're being phonetic about it.
Meg, Pembs,
I see it as this.
Wales geographicaly is in between Ireland and England.
The English are/where a hostile occupying force within Ireland.
The Irish and the Welsh are of similar make up in that the are Celts as apposed to Anglo Saxon. Celts are the true English as they are the original people of the Land.
English are made up by the bastardisation of the invading hords from Europe. A truth that has been scientifically proven.
So as similar peoples the Welsh support their brothers in Ireland. I am sure if you had a hostile invading force in England you might feel the same way.... looking after your own
This might be a contributing factor to Mr Gills statement?
harry, peking, china
AA Gill, are you sure that you don't really want to be Welsh. It is Gods Country after all!
proudtobewelsh, cardiff, wales
I know Welsh people are supposed to be resentful of ---- well, nearly everyone else but especially the English. I've wotked a lot in Wales and spent many holidays there. All I've met are very positive, busy and friendly people.
Well, that's my experience isn't it!
Geoff, Birmingham, UK
"But isn’t the defining characteristic of Welshness a hatred of the English?"
I thought that was the defining characteristic of every nation including the English.
Jason, Sligo, Ireland
Mr. Gill;
I hope your postman has'nt read this article-he may be in for a busy month.
You are quite correct in your description of the Welshmans delicate ego.And Brydon's cliche ridden "back to my roots boyo" act will be forgotten before the foam on his (yeast free) latte has been blown all over David Walliams' Prada bag.
Malik Shabbaz, Solihull,