The Reason there is such a large population of Russian speakers in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania is that Stalin had a plan to Russify those countries- the Soviet Occupying Authorities colonized the three Baltic States with hundreds of thousands of Russians in direct violation of the Genevea Convention. After independance in 1991, the three Baltic States were left with a large population of non-loyal residents.

lisa, Tallinn,

I laugh out loud every time I hear about these "liberators". Russians liberated us, the Balts, from fascism, however their soldiers forgot to leave and forcefully imposed communism on us.
These "liberators" killed or deported to Siberia approximately 30% of Lithuanian population. Most of them never came back. Historians admit that soviet concentration camps were even more inhumane than those managed by Nazis. Those killed by the Soviets were the elite of my nation. Teachers, professors, doctors, priests, and many many educated men women and their children. For more than 10 years Lithuanian "forest brothers" (partisans) resisted this "liberation". One of them was my grandfather. He was killed in the battle fighting these "liberators." I am thankful to my grandfather that we have much less of these 5th column "liberation" worshipers with their heads turned to Kremlin and their eyes stuck to "the most objective" Russian TV programs, whereof are now being censored by the Kremlin.

Arunas Bagdonas, Vilnius, Lithuania

Just one more remarque. These 12 soldiers died in battles around Tallinn. The German troops had allready left Tallinn when Soviet troops entered our capital. So stop calling them liberators of Tallinn.

Tiit, Tallinn, Estonia

Vitali, Kohtla-Jarve - if you would put the same effort into learning Estonian as you have into learning English, you'd have no problem getting Estonian citizenship. :) Seems to me that you're talented in languages, so why not go for it?

K.A., Whitby,

Whats the deal with "Nazis", Estonia was occupied by Nazis as well as the Soviet troops, we actually have no warm feelings against any of these regimes. The monument WAS NOT DEMOLISHED, it was just moved to a cemetery, and as it was said (and is said), Estonia is an independent country, so it is not a concern of Russia. And btw, Russia took down their own share of monuments recently (not moved to another location, but removed for good), for example one was at Himki (near Moscow) and the other one at Krasnaja Gorka (near ST. Petersburg), why don't they protest against themselves then? So nice to have double standards. And about the drunk hooligans that trashed the city (most had a criminal record to begin with), well - you make your own conclusions about that one.

Vikat, Tallinn, Estonia

A lot of the russians who were rioting here in Estonia dont know the historical background...Do you understand what the regime did to our country? Ten thousand people(including women and children)in 1941 and even more in 1949 were sent to Siberia. Not to mention the demolishing of our own symbols (concerning our culture). Our monuments were savagely dismantled and censorship was everywhere (among other terrifieng acts). The Soviet regime was devastating for us, we estonians have never approved it. Many russians were intergrated to estonia during the occupation, now the offspring of them are rioting on the streets.
To russians: the bronze soldier has become (during the past years) a place where you gather and some of you even show red flags and sing the Soviet anthem. Try to understand the situation from our viewpoint. Do you know how a estonian feels when you wave your red flags and burn our flags on our own independent land?!

Ed, Tallinn, Estonia

I find it an extremely "russian" approach - let`s stir it up and make a big fuss. The monument is not going anywhere - it will be only relocated where it`s less visible to the nationals and tourists and is more relevant.
Estonia is an independent country by now and doing extremely well since we became free from USSR and there isn`t a place for soviet statues/socialists behaviour. Being an estonian I still have memories of the past but at least we have an opportunity for good future, which we will go for! Up to date estonians appreciate modern cultures/languages(it was all taken away from us by Stalin and we were cut of the european map for over 50 years) and have good education and don`t sell nazi related items.
After all - all these russians should be extatic having to possess EU passports - that gives them gate to the west and to be frank it was their decision to stay in Estonian in 1991 and should be really accepting the laws/rules that apply to the new state!!!

Kristi, London, UK

To Constantine, Angarsk ,

They were all murdered, that`s why you don`t see any estonians walking on the streets of Siberia!

Kristi, London, UK

Constantine,
you comment leaves me puzzled: are you stating that no deportation took place just because YOU haven't met any Estonians there??? (this logic is just as faulty as me saying that white whales don't exist, because I personally haven't seen any!)

Or does it really come as a surprise that such horrific events (1941&1949) actually took place? But it WAS tragic
reality, not just words.My great grandparents and grandpa's baby brother were amongst those thousands (be them elderly or children, ill or weak) that were brutally forced to leave their homes for Siberia without having a moment
to pack. They died there...Just like thousands of others (a certain number, however, managed to return after years). THIS is the reason why you don't run across them in
huge Siberia.
Btw, Estonians were by far not the only ones subjected to this fate; many others (especially ethnic Finno-Ugrian minorities) fell victim, too.

Maris, Tartu, Estonia

i m a cityzen of Estonia.russians can t vote because they dont have a cityzenship.they don t have it because they don t want to learn our language and they don t want to accept Estonia as an independent part of the world.
now let s get to the point and lets keep it simple.
if russian does not want the things i wrote above,then therussian is an occupant who must get out of Estonia along with all his of the monuments and attitude.
thats all from me.

Hannes, Pärnu, Estonia

To Ly from Birmingham

Actually the statue is relocated with the remains to the military cemetary which happens to be located NEARBY to a bus station. All those who are buried there are soldiers, who died fighting in different wars and wearing different uniforms. So it is an international cemetary. British, estonian, german, and russian soldiers are buried there.

Karl, Tallinn, Estonia

I suppose that there are few nazi Estonians today, but we must not forget that Estonian SS Volunteer Armored Infantry Battalion "Narwa" was a reality. All those guys were voulunteers. Perhaps you should consult Simon Wiesenthal Centre.

Branko Copic, Canterbury,

What's frightening is the rethorics of the Russian government. "Nazi zealots"! What's next? Jews trying to poison Putin? Finns eating Russian children? It's a well known fact that the Russian government is trying to use ethnic Russians and their ignorance wherever they live in order to advance its interests. The sad and alarming thing is that seems to work. Then again, the majority is not buying any of it. Quite a few of the policemen fighting for order and sovereignty in Estonia are "Russian". And, by the way, how many of you "foreigners" would tolerate a nationalistic symbol of a former occupying country in your own hometown. Estonians have showed a great deal of tolerance so far.

Tomi, Turku, Finland

That statue will be opened by 8th of May, Russian community celebrates their win on 9th of May- was the 2,5 million pound damages Russians did worth it? You would not bury your close ones under bus station who those men should be there?They deserve proper last resting place are they estonians,russian,germans etc in cementary.Think about the location before you tell it was wrong,wrong is people walking on grave,spitting and puking.The statue will be exaclty same only with the graves for fallen in cementarty and not far from its original place.

Ly, Birmingham,

Yes, the Estonian PM was a communist as he was young. He has learnt. Now, he is not a communist anymore. He is probably the best PM the third Estonian Republic ever has had really fighting for the rights of the Estonian citizens. He has done what nobody else was tought enought to do earlier - to start moving the bones to the place they belong to. What kind of dummy would grave some dead people under a future bus stop, directly into the center of the city? The idea has come from a communistical country USSR. Or should I say fascistical country USSR? Knowing the meaning of the fascism and knowing how the life in Russia nowadays is - I see that there is a fascistical order in Russia. Is Russia a democratic country? I doubt. How many parties are in Russia's parliament? And for a comparison, how many parties are in Estonian's parliament in the coalition? Knowing the answers to the questions can nobody call Estonia to a fascistic country but Russia... ;-)

Orgulas Burrows of Hobbiton, Tallinn, Estonia

That's not a Red Army monument. There is a legend "For all who fell a victim to WW2". Should the estonian goverment respect the memory of these people? Look like they don't want.
What have to do people who can't even vote in this country, but this is their motherland? We went on the streets.
There is no another meanings. That's it.

Vitali, Kohtla-Jarve, Estonia

Greg what nazi marchers you are talking about?I hope you are joking otherwise think again, would EU have allowed us to join if we were allowing such things in our country?Read lesser Russian media.We are not nazis but we dont want to feel like we are still under communism either.Dead people belong to cementarty not in city centre under bus station.Statue is undamaged and beeing set exaclty like it was brick by brick in army cementarty where people are free to go and visit it who wishes.Stop beeing so childish and listen whats going on,these 16 years old have no reason to go robbing boutiques and attacking banks,they get paid to do this for 80 kroons in an hour!we let Russians to live in EU without visa or EU passport in our country,we let them have their schools in Russian language supported by goverment- we have NO schools for only Germans at all!Russia is big bully,everyone who can read Baltic States and other invaded countries history will understand that .Russia dont like beeing no

Ly, Birmingham,

Evan writes - "Which probably reveals some of what's really going on here. Estonia is now independent, and securely so. The live question is now, the Russian minority within Estonia and other countries, who are treated as second-class citizens - if as citizens at all and not simply foreigners."

... it is russians (the neostalinist ones of them, such as the rioters) who do not recognize themselves as citizens of Estonia, instead preferring Russia. They shout "ROSSIJA ROSSIJA" all the time. If they dont even want to be Estonian citizens, nothing can help them.

Besides, the government is just MOVING the monument and remains to a cemetery. Not destroying them. Most protesters seem to have forgotten that.

villu, Tallinn,

...with an ex-KGB officer by the name of V. Putin..
Do you know that Estoninan premier (who organized action with Bronze Soldgier) an ex-CPSU (Communist party of Soviet Union) activist ?

svis, Russia,

I don't understand why they just couldn't leave the statue there. It never bothered anyone else than stupid nationalists. And I don't understand the looting and killing - this is not about the statue anymore, its about free goods and vandalism. Both sides are stupid!

Dr.Drew, Tallinn, Estonia

The Russians don't have a leg to stand on on this issue. They occuppied Estonia after doing a deal with tthe Nazis and shipped hundreds of thousands of its best citizens to the horror of the Kolyma and other Gulags. Its high time Russia stopped its imperialist sabre rattling.

Arnold Ward, Weybridge, Surrey, UK

Estonia is free now and people can do whatever they want.Estonians just taking sculpture to other place.Russians removing monuments without any ceremonies and nobody cares...Nobody knows what communism means to us LITHUANIANS,LATVIANS and ESTONIANS.

Minvydas, Panevėžys, Lithuania

Watch this carefully, world. What Russia does--or tries to do--in the Baltics is often a precursor of its actions in the larger world. Do not expect the CFE or gas-supply issues to be easily resolved.

As to Estonia, do consider who might be organizing the drunken teenagers and youths who are rioting and throwing petrol bombs--destroying shops and looting liquor stores in their patriotic Russian zeal.

Linda, Durham, NC, USA

For ethnic Estonians Russians are and always remain liberators who forgot to come back to their own country.The Red Army when left Baltic countries in 1991 forgot to pick these monuments to where they belong - to Russia.Russians don't want to understand that these bronze statues of Russian soldier reminds 50 years of soviet occupation, they shouldn't be in the centre of the capital. And these young vandals they even didn't see the war! They are just criminals, that's it.Not only on my opinion it didn't happen without planning Russian KGB, so Estonia and other lost "Russian teritories" have to beware of such provocations planned in Moscow. one can have a look at www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tallin+riots

Virginijus, Manchester,

i think those guys whose remains are buried in the center of Tallin were not politicians, they did not what to occupy anybody, they were usual soldiers who simply perished while fighting at war like milions of other men did
why not to leave corpses, bones, remains in peace?
what if you granfathers's remains would be dug out of soil?
there are no justifications for grave-diggers

Spuntik, Denver, Colorado

Yury writes "I think it's more like FIFTY, not 15"... Would he be Russian, by any chance? I don't think we can consider 50 years of Soviet occupation as independence for the people of Estonia! As far as the old nazism accusation of Estonia, is concerned it's a tiny little more complicated than that. We, in the "West" had a chance to consider our Past, to study our WWII history. Because of the isolation, thanks to Soviet occupation, of Estonia, the work on memory didn't occur there. Germans are seen as "heroes" because they fought the first occupiers, the Russians. Estonia is NOT nazi but the sufferings endured during nazi occupation have been buried under much more recent ones, endured under the Soviet occupation, so that communism is seen as the ultimate evil. Much understandable. The cultural differences, however, lead to misunderstandings... Maybe Russia should realize that its not a superpower any longer? Tallinn, after all, is not destroying the statue, just putting it elsewhere..

Juliette, Paris, France

Well, actually the monument was not a big problem for 15 independence years. Even the fact that every May 9th there was open vodka-drinking event, was not a big deal - these were old and harmless men. We, Estonians are not Soviets - we do not destroy monuments like our monuments were destroyed after war, we do not destroy graveyards like our soldier graveyards were destroyed after the war.
What has happened is that local Russians started to feel too well, becoming EU citizens etc. Integration has not been too successful, but it had started to work, bit by bit. Moscow was slowly losing its "fifth column".
So during last years these events near monument became anti-government manifestation, where relatively small group of young Russians were waving red flags and shouting insults to Estonians. Russian schoolchildren were brought to these events by their teachers. Last year, May 9 it resulted in open attack against a man wearing Estonian national flag.

Vahur, Tallinn, Estonia

yes funny how Estonians MOVING a statue symbolizing occupation and mass murders are "inhuman", but Russians themselves are destroying similar monuments and throwing away the remains of people buried there as we speak.

I didn't know robbing Armani and Hugo Boss stores and turning over cars in Tallinn could be called "fighting nazism"

ulla, Stockholm,

Hei, Charles:

That empathy that you speak of just doesn't exist behind Kremlin walls nor will it come to pass in the future. Putin has smirked at the idea of even acknowldging Soviet-Russia's atrocities, deportations, and systematic genocidal extermination of Estonians. Please inform yourself!

Your "empathy" idea is wonderful in the case of normal people, but we are dealing with an ex-KGB officer by the name of V. Putin who obviously has nothing but hate against Estonians flowing in his veins.

Look at what his henchmen did to Tallinn in the past two days.

Sympathizer, Northampton,

"The recapture of Tallinn by Soviet forces was far from being a "liberation" for the Estonian people. It merely marked a change in foreign regimes" - It is frightening to see how neo-nazis take commanding positions in that country. They equal fascist nazi regime to a member of the anti-Hitler coalition who saved millions from nazi annihilation.
I read that Estonian SS soldiers have their annual marches. They are respected and government supported war veterans.
Disgusting.

greg, Sydney, Australia

Yuri writes "Of course they don't want the monument of Russian soldier, they would rather have a Nazi monument".

Here is the proof - the so-called 'war of monuments' had started with the Likhula Monster, a monument to fascists (who i personally hate 'by default'), the very fact of which is beyond understanding.

http://www.regnum.ru/english/542896.html

judge for yourself..

this situation has gone too far.. wonder will there be a wayout.

am not going to offend anyone, i'd rather not devide people in 'drunk russians' , 'sober estonians' or whosoever - have lots of nice friends in Russia and Estonia.

Disagree with Anu, 'Estonians were ... deported to Siberian work-camps', having lived in Siberia for over 30 years (Chita, Irkutsk, Angarsk), have never run across a single Estonian 'in flash' in this part of the country (once heard of one from my father), unlike other convicts, for instance Russian Decembrists in the XIX century

Constantine, Angarsk (currently), Russia

Although i'm a foreigner (European) living in Tallinn, i do have to agree with the Estonians on this one.
Its a fact that the monument does honour those who fell in the war against Nazis, but has been a very clear reminder of the Soviet ocupation. And that to much fault of the russians, who usually would demonstrate near the statue flying soviet flags and chanting to old Soviet anthems, in a clear act of provocation.
But what is worst, is that the violence that the Russians have shown in Tallinn in last few days have not come inocently. Somebody paid for those buses full of people that started these riots. Some say local Russian ally, Savisaar, is doing the job. Some say Russia is doing it in covert. But the fact is, many of these people would be counting cents to get food in any given day. How the hell they suddenly got enough cash to travel around?
And, obviously for those who were here, was the "perfect" organization of the rioters. So.... Who's behind this???

Alex, Tallinn, Estonia

I dont understand those people who say they liberated Estonia- liberated from nazism to communism? Wow. Its not liberating when you take this country over.This statue is in soviet soldier uniform,we have statues that remember men,women,children killed without having any german,russian or any other mark on it that would point is it nazi or communist.We removed last year statue with german soldier this year goes russian solder- we have had it with Russia bullying small countries,there is no democracy,if they dont get what they want they start to threat with war and ruin our cities.They dont have respect for living not talking about dead.Where were they with respect when Estonian women and children got raped and bodies thrown on road side.

Ly, Birmingham,

The truth is that a lot of Estonians regard Nazi occupation better option, the least of evils, for them than the Soviet repression. Better be independent, of course, but under ciscumstances, Nazis were O.K. Take into account a fierce nationalism of a small oppressed nation and you get the picture.
On the other hand, Russians don't want to accept that they were perpetrators instead of liberators - the pride of having defeated teh Nazis is consideerd the greatest accomplishment in their recent history.
And, of course, here comes the West, who tends to convey a simplistic view of good and evil, when nobody is good.

Ilya, Chicago,

Russia is accusing Estonia for "mocking the dead" for removing the statue, but at the same time several Russian authorities have demolished and moved several memorial statues and wargraves in Russia (example- Himk), most of them secretly. So it's like its OK for Russia to demolish graves but if any other country is doing it - they are FASHIST!


Not to mention - Russian army destoyed HUNDREDS of monuments and graves during and after the war. Not only in Estonia but other eastern-european countries also.

Mait, Tallinn, Estonia

Ben what do you know about living under communism?if you said that in Estonia against Estonian goverment 20 years ago you would have been by now jailed and soon killed.Please think before what you say,communism and natzim are equailly bad, but it dosent mean we want to celebrate it or see reminders of it, every estonian lost part of family back then,if you wuld family members in shooting would you keep those bullets to remember that day to celebrate it every year?They have their statue, but not in middle of Tallinn,its now in army cementary where they can go and visit it and remember.If we were against russians we would not let them live in Estonia without visas and Estonian passports,we even let them have only Russian schools-we dont have any German only school,we only lear german as one of the languages like English at usual school.We have fought Russians in our history many times,if need we will fight again,again and again-but we wont let them stomp on our country.

Ly, Birmingham,

Estonia was forced to join the Soviet Union in 1940, and was in effect occupied. Large military bases filled with the occupying forces were set up in, for instance, the Estonian port of Paldiski. All the members of the Estonian government, and many MPs, of what had been an independent country were sent literally to Siberia. Many were shot or starved to death in 1942. You can see the plaque for yourselves on Toompea Hill (opposite the Dutch Embassy) in the Estonian capital, Tallinn.

At the same time, the Soviet Union had signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact with, guess who, Hitler's Germany, to delay the inevitable war, as Stalin had shot all his best generals in a bout of paranoia in the 1930s. So the Russians, who were friends with the Germans, occupied a sovereign country.

And Russians now accuse Estonia of "fascism" for pulling down one monument to what is, in effect, Russian imperialism.

Is it any wonder that the Estonians resent the monument to the former colonial power?

Eric, Blaricum, Netherlands

Estonia has every right to do what they bloody well please in their own country. The bronze soldier has been a constant source of trouble and unrest in Tallinn. Soviet veterans went there to celebrate the glory of the Soviet Union, waving the Soviet flag and singing the Soviet (now also the Russian) anthem, radical nationalist Estonians went their to pick fights with radical nationalist Russians, while others just went there to be loud and drunk. Hardly something fitting a war memorial. Also, keep in mind that the soldier has merely been _moved_, not dismantled. What more, just a few weeks ago two WWII-memorials in Russia were removed, one of them to allow the construction of a new highway. These were destroyed, not moved, and the protesters at the sight were met with the common courtesy of Russian police. (Beaten severely up, that is.)

Kakespade, Bergen, Norway

I lived in Russia for 6 years - and visited Estonia often. Its a tough issue and very emotional for both sides. The brute Stalin did make secret deal with brute Hitler to divide up Eastern Europe and Baltics just before war. That's hardly a 'liberation.' Hitler then trounced Stalin and took control. Then Stalin trounced Hitler and took control. From the Estonian perspective, they were just occupied pawns who suffered under various thugs for 50+ years.

Russia needs to come to grips with its brutal history and show some empathy for Estonia in this. Then Estonia can make its move to pat Russia on back, and everyone can be buddies again.

sound good?

Charles, NH, USA

to yuri: still, its fifteen.

and its pretty sad to watch russians trash the city like that, they live in this very city.. i guess its their nature just get all fired up like that over nothing. the statue was not removed, it was moved. they can still visit it. but no longer does it have negative influence in the centre of the city..

Lex, Tallinn, Estonia

Russia is 110% right in this matter. The Estonian action is a gratuitous insult to the memory of all who died fighting the Germans in WW2.

Ben, San Francisco, USA

Funny how they don't talk about the many, many WWII graves and monuments Russians themselves are removing in Russia without any ceremonies - just scooping them up and throwing bones in big trashbags.

Cass, Tallinn,

For Estonians the Bronze Soldier marks the beginning of almost half a century of ILLEGAL SOVIET OCCUPATION, during which Estonians were systemtically repressed and deported to Siberian work-camps. Contrary to what the Russian propagandists like to think Estonia had before the occupations been a free, independent and quite a wealthy country and independence wasnt gained thanks to the mercy of Lenin or any other Russian, but thanks to those who fought in the Estonian War of Independence in 1918-1920 (it's all in Wikipedia). Russians didn't bring culture, they destroyed it (the cultural elite along with Estonian politicians were the first to be sent to Siberia). The Russian nationalists like to think that the Red Army liberated Estonia from the Nazis, but the truth is that their "liberation" took more Estonian lives than the Nazi occupation. COMMUNISM WAS JUST AS BAD AS NAZISM.

Anu, Tallinn,

This monument is not a celebration of soviet rule over Estonia. The monument is a mark of respect to the Russian service men who were killed liberating the city.

The government is not just removing the monument; they are also digging up the dead bodies of the servicemen and removing them from the city centre. That is a highly distasteful act at best.

The government has been determined to use whatever means possible to "move" the monument and the bodies. They claimed it would not be moved until after the 9th May. I now wonder if it is going to have an accident on the way to being re-homed?

C Riley, London,

Take the statue down from where it now stands, and place it in a museum which offers historic exhibition and education on WWII.

Things like the Bronze statue are important, but they do not need to be in the center of modern society. Art should represent the ambitions of those who have lived / who do live - and partcipate - within a community and country. The Bronze statue seems to represent deceit, dishonor, and death without dignity.

I am a third generation American of Latvian/Ukrainian heritage. From the bit that I now know about the statue, I would have to imagine that many of the people who must see it on a regular basis would find it offensive. Thank you for letting me participate by sharing my opinion.

Melanie, Lancaster, United States / PA

I'm seriously concerned about the future of whole europe. Where will it all end?

Valentin Beyer, Greifswald, Germany

Its an insult to the people who lost their lives, regardless of whos side is on whos. Many men lost their lives in WWII, and each and every one of them is being forgotten over a spat about whether a piece of concrete divides society or not. So much has been erased from history in the Baltics by the Soviets, this leads one to question why is Estonia engaging in such hypocrasy.

RDay, Reading, UK

Every communist holiday people used to come to the statue to "pay honour to it". In actuality what happened was that the mob drunk vodka and waved communist russias red flags there. For me, a 27 year old estonian, that flag is the same as the nazies svastika. The situation was a discrase and it is really good that the statue is gone.

The mob which were looting in the streets had nothing to do with the statue, they were drunken young people who just wanted to destroy.

Best regards from Estonia!

Sten, Tallinn, Estonia

Peter writes - "Those who feel so upset and so close to Russia are welcome to hop back across the North-Eastern border, provided that they ever get past the corrupt and inept customs 'officers'."

Which probably reveals some of what's really going on here. Estonia is now independent, and securely so. The live question is now, the Russian minority within Estonia and other countries, who are treated as second-class citizens - if as citizens at all and not simply foreigners.

This controversy around the war memorial seems to have brought that out.

Evan, Birmingham,

"Fifteen years after Estonia regained its independence" - I think it is more like FIFTY years, not fifteen...
Of course they don't want the monument of Russian soldier, they would rather have a Nazi monument...

Yury, New Your, US of A

Having lived in Russia several years I can sympathize with the Estonian people. The monument has everything to do with the threat against Estonia. Those who feel so upset and so close to Russia are welcome to hop back across the North-Eastern border, provided that they ever get past the corrupt and inept customs 'officers'. More than sixty years after having got rid of fascist threat from the South-West, Estonia is once again under fascist threat, except this time it is from the North-East !

Peter, London,

god, of course they can not alow that intruders /russians/ will rule in estonia.
stupid young drunk rusians just make things harder.
estoniaan goverment did everything right

last, london, uk